Does Clay Scratch The Paint???

[Beemerboy]

I was reading on a BMW site in the detail section and one of the posters, said that they didn't like using clay because it put micro marrying on the paint surface....This guy works in a body shop and seems to understand what he is talking about...I was floored by this as I have always felt clay USED RIGHT was good for the surface...



My feelings are that when you use clay its to remove everything that is on the surface, then you continue with SWR's, polishes and the likes of those...any micro marring that occurs during the clay process would be addressed at those points...right?

His theory was that after washing the car, the polishing with a PC would remove anything in a safer and faster way than clay and create less if no marring...I could see how he would think that's true as the polish would make the car look clean and smooth...

So I put this question to you all for debate

[joyriide1113]

On some paints, I get light marring. No matter how clean or lubed the surface is. This is with mothers clay BTW.

[MoparAddict]

Originally Posted by Beemerboy

I was reading on a BMW site in the detail section and one of the posters, said that they didn't like using clay because it put micro marrying on the paint surface....This guy works in a body shop and seems to understand what he is talking about...I was floored by this as I have always felt clay USED RIGHT was good for the surface...



My feelings are that when you use clay its to remove everything that is on the surface, then you continue with SWR's, polishes and the likes of those...any micro marring that occurs during the clay process would be addressed at those points...right?

His theory was that after washing the car, the polishing with a PC would remove anything in a safer and faster way than clay and create less if no marring...I could see how he would think that's true as the polish would make the car look clean and smooth...

So I put this question to you all for debate

I agree with you Steve. I do notice micro marring on dark colors after claying, ecspecially on softer paints. A simple polish/swr gets rid of it tho.
I dont get his theory.If he just polishes after washing,wouldnt the fallout/overspray/contanminents still be on the paint? Im sure it would still look good on a dark color car but would be more noticable on a light color car and feel like crap.
just my two cents.

Trevor

[Beemerboy]

Originally Posted by MoparAddict

I agree with you Steve. I do notice micro marring on dark colors after claying, ecspecially on softer paints. A simple polish/swr gets rid of it tho.
I dont get his theory.If he just polishes after washing,wouldnt the fallout/overspray/contanminents still be on the paint? Im sure it would still look good on a dark color car but would be more noticable on a light color car and feel like crap.
just my two cents.

Trevor

Trevor....a paint cleaner will remove some / most of the surface stuff, but that 's the reason for using clay...I can agree that clay can cause some marring but not to the point of concern...If you are using clay the reason is to remove something from the surface so the natural process would be to polish and protect next, its not a LSP, or shouldn't be

[bigron62]

yea clay can scratch but a good polish will fix it up ..i scratched up a black mercedes one time and spent the next 5 hours with a rotary fixing it it was the worst day detailing ive ever had . it was clay majic purple heavy duty clay .. i really like the sonus extra fine clay ..i dont worry about this happening again..ive tried about 10 different brands .. this guy might have dropped a piece and picked it up and went back to work .. ive dumped a few pieces in the trash because i dropped it .. i believe clay produces the highest quality finish when followed by polish/wax

[Beemerboy]

Originally Posted by bigron62

yea clay can scratch but a good polish will fix it up ..i scratched up a black mercedes one time and spent the next 5 hours with a rotary fixing it it was the worst day detailing ive ever had . it was clay majic purple heavy duty clay .. i really like the sonus extra fine clay ..i dont worry about this happening again..ive tried about 10 different brands .. this guy might have dropped a piece and picked it up and went back to work .. ive dumped a few pieces in the trash because i dropped it .. i believe clay produces the highest quality finish when followed by polish/wax

Ron,

As you know now clay comes in different grades...the purple is one that is for real tuff stuff, that is harden on surface...I have some here for that use..I use that down by where the tires kick up stuff that clings to the paint, or real bad overspray...but for mild removal the Mothers gray or light blue is like silly putty..its a no brainier.

What you said about dropping it could well be the reason one MIGHT associate that clay scratches, or using it the wrong way..would be another...however any micro marring that clay creates is not greater than washing a real dirty car.

[JaredPointer]

I would have to think that if used correctly it's not the clay marring the paint, but rather stuff in the clay causing marring.

[Beemerboy]

Originally Posted by JaredPointer

I would have to think that if used correctly it's not the clay marring the paint, but rather stuff in the clay causing marring.

Totally agree Jay...thats the reason for kneading the clay a lot while in use...and knowing when the clay had reached the end of its life....I then use that on rims and areas like that

[9D4E420]

I think that claying is absolutely necessary. It just makes no sense because a polish will clean up some of it but if you feel the paint, it will still be rough especially if you use the plastic bag test. The rest of the contaminents through the heat of the buffer I believe get mashed in the paint. Like everyone said keep the clay kneaded. I also only use my clay about 3 uses before discarding it. Some of the marring might be from dirty clay even though it is kneaded.

[Stephan]

I agree with the posts its not the clay itself but rather what the clay picks up, a good kneading of the clay should prevent harmful damage. But like anything you clean a car with, whether it is clay, a mft or a rag, at some point you say to yourself this will now only cause damage if I keep on using it.

[Poorboy]

Food for thought..there were clean and smooth finishes long before there was clay

[JaredPointer]

Originally Posted by Poorboy

Food for thought..there were clean and smooth finishes long before there was clay

And people were able to work without computers and the internet.

All you young whippersnappers need to get the heck off my lawn!

[Beemerboy]

Originally Posted by Poorboy

Food for thought..there were clean and smooth finishes long before there was clay

During the days of single stage paints good compounds with a wool pad and a rotary would take off layers of paint...

Thats not saying that paint cleaners can not effectively remove surface junk...but that's not the point of this person from the BMW forum..

[Poorboy]

Originally Posted by Beemerboy

During the days of single stage paints good compounds with a wool pad and a rotary would take off layers of paint...

Thats not saying that paint cleaners can not effectively remove surface junk...but that's not the point of this person from the BMW forum..

ok ..back to the point of this thread...yes certain clay are more aggressive than others and can scratch certain paints, also the lubricant used with the clay can play an important part of whether it will glide or rub

[Stephan]

I guess pretty much anything not used properly has somewhat of a potential to do some damage to the paint

[blk45]

Disclaimer: I know everyone here knows this already and some have been mentioned.

There are plenty of variables that would cause this situation. Very soft paint, clay that is too aggressive and/or contaminated, not enough lubricant(or the correct lubricant) or too much pressure. Individually or any combination of them will cause these results.

[agentm]

If you don't clay and go right to polish then you better have more then 5 pads. I tried it few times on a black car and so much dirty debris on my pad after each section. And polish will fix the micro marring.